Episode 15 - Eddington

[00:00:02] Speaker A: Okay. Can you do that again, Alex? Nice. [00:00:05] Speaker B: I need to go wash my hands. [00:00:06] Speaker A: Yeah, you gotta wash your hands. I'll get hand sanitizers, but we're recording. Okay, well, we'll edit this out. We'll edit this out. No, you son of a. Let's just go around the table. Who's singing this song? [00:00:35] Speaker B: Don't even ask me. I have no idea. [00:00:36] Speaker A: When you hear the name, you're gonna go, what the. This is Prefab Sprout. [00:00:41] Speaker B: Okay. [00:00:42] Speaker A: By the name, you should know that they are British, because only British will come up with a name like Prefab Sprout. Yeah, the. The tenuous connection to what we're talking about today, which is Eddington, is that they say Albuquerque in the song, and Albuquerque is New Mexico, and Eddington takes place in New Mexico, and Ari Aster [00:00:59] Speaker B: grew up in New Mexico. [00:01:00] Speaker A: Did he really? [00:01:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:01:00] Speaker A: Is that why he. [00:01:01] Speaker B: This is what. That's what inspired this. [00:01:03] Speaker A: That's cool. [00:01:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:01:03] Speaker A: All right. All right. So I did a good choice there. I just want you guys to hear the song, and I just thought that was kind of funny. [00:01:08] Speaker C: Jazzy song. [00:01:09] Speaker A: It's pretty cool. [00:01:10] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:01:10] Speaker A: Yeah. In the video, there's actually a frog singing because they say jumping frog, and it's like a really creepy frog. And, like. And at the end, he goes, like a really deep voice. It's in the song also. He goes, albuquerque. Oh, maybe we'll play it for you guys at the end. This is. Watch this, as we should tell everybody a movie review and discussion podcast. I am your host, Paul Klein. Sitting across from me is our host, Stephanie Cablano. [00:01:40] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. I could edit it. [00:01:42] Speaker A: Yeah, sure. [00:01:43] Speaker B: We won't. [00:01:43] Speaker A: We won't. It's fine. No. Sitting to my left is Alex Bello, who is also our host. I should have said so. Three hosts are we. And today. [00:01:53] Speaker B: Okay, three hosts are we. I like it. [00:01:55] Speaker A: We're going to talk about edit tea. No, Eddington. [00:01:59] Speaker B: Don't disrespect Eddington. [00:02:00] Speaker A: Oh. Oh, fuck you. Please, please get over it. Okay, so as you may be able to tell. So the three of us have seated, and two of us are. We have an opinion on it. One of us loves the movie. Came in last week. Monday, right? Or was it this Monday? It was this Monday. [00:02:17] Speaker B: This is Monday. [00:02:18] Speaker A: Wow. I'm going to say it for you. I'm sorry. It was effusive praise for the film. Oh, my gosh. What was? I think the words were. Not just the best movie of the. The best movie of the decade so far. [00:02:28] Speaker B: No, no, no, no. [00:02:30] Speaker A: That's. [00:02:30] Speaker B: Quote me. All right. I said. [00:02:32] Speaker A: Excuse me. [00:02:33] Speaker B: I said the best movie of the year also. And perhaps the defining movie of the 2000s. Not meaning the best movie of the 2000s, but the movie that sums up the 2000s the best. Okay. [00:02:50] Speaker C: If I'm not wrong, did you also say that it was one of Ari Aster's best movie? [00:02:55] Speaker B: Oh, no, no, Stephanie, I said it is his best movie. [00:02:58] Speaker A: Wow. [00:02:59] Speaker C: Okay. [00:03:00] Speaker B: Best. [00:03:01] Speaker A: Even Ariaster fans are offended, but I [00:03:03] Speaker B: will die on this hill. I will die on the Eddington hill. [00:03:07] Speaker A: All right, well, let's jump into it. So Eddington is directed by Ari Aster, who, of course directed Midsommar and Hereditary and Beau is Afraid, apparently, which was not as well liked as the other two movies. It would be easy to say it is a divisive film. It premiered at the Cannes Film Festival. Some people love it, some people hate it, some people just. Well, we'll see how we feel about it. I don't know if I hate it, but I like pissing off Alex. So I will say, for me, I saw it at Sunset Place. And so, of course, that means I saw it in the worst possible way that you can see a movie. I think actually was in the same theater where I saw Gladiator 2 back in November. And those assholes still haven't fixed their projector, so the movie looked like absolute shit. And I do actually want to ask you. The movie is not supposed to look blue. There should be a lot of oranges. [00:03:59] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, the movie is very. [00:04:00] Speaker A: There was no orange. Because it was. The visuals were completely washed out from the very beginning, which already put me into a bad mood. But I tried to put all that aside, and I said, okay, I'm gonna sit back. Fine. Looks like shit. I'm still watching the movie. I can still put this together. And then I started doing this. [00:04:19] Speaker B: Why? [00:04:20] Speaker A: Because the AC wasn't working. [00:04:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:04:22] Speaker A: So. And it was really getting hot in there. I felt like I was in the movie, that I was in New Mexico. Eventually, it started to not cool down. But, like, I stopped thinking about it. I stopped noticing it. Mostly because I was sitting there going, when will this fucking movie end? Because it will not end. This movie has more endings than Lord of the Rings. [00:04:41] Speaker B: All right, look, this sounds like your experience of Eddington was tampered by. It was circumstances. [00:04:48] Speaker A: But a good movie would still. Would still trump those terrible choice of words, but would still negate those awful things. [00:04:56] Speaker C: And I watched it at Tamiami, so I'm not part of that. [00:05:00] Speaker B: Yeah, well, fuck you. [00:05:04] Speaker A: What was your experience when you were watching it, Stephanie? [00:05:07] Speaker C: It was pretty good. I like tamiami. The air conditioner works, the seats recline. [00:05:12] Speaker A: Oh, wow. [00:05:12] Speaker C: Projector worked. So it was pretty nice and comfy. It was just the movie. [00:05:18] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:05:18] Speaker A: That I. I had a guy sitting. Go ahead. [00:05:21] Speaker C: 50. 50. About. [00:05:22] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, I. That's probably where I am. We'll see. We'll see how we feel at the end of this podcast. But we're. We're basically 50. 50. There was one guy sitting behind me who made the movie more entertaining because he was one of those guys who would laugh out loud at anything or, like, he wasn't embarrassed while laughing out loud. [00:05:38] Speaker B: Oh, I laughed out loud. I left at the top of my lungs. [00:05:40] Speaker A: And maybe it was you sitting behind me, but he was. It was really funny because when the movie was over, I kind of wanted to turn over to him and be like, dude, you made the movie more entertaining than it was. But there was one moment whenever. So. And obviously we're going to get there, but, like, when everything kind of goes crazy by the end and there's like, a quiet moment and he goes, what the fuck is going on? [00:06:00] Speaker C: That might have been me. [00:06:02] Speaker A: Yeah. I want to turn around and go, fucking know. I do know, actually what was going on, but. So let's get into it. Alejandro, since you love this movie, why don't you set up the movie for us? [00:06:12] Speaker B: All right, let's do it. Does Stephanie have something to say? Because I saw you raise the finger before I started. [00:06:16] Speaker A: That was just a middle finger. [00:06:17] Speaker C: Yeah. Okay, you guys, [00:06:21] Speaker B: my goal in this episode is to try to change all of your opinions of this movie, because I feel so strongly about it. Okay, Eddington, let's set it up. It is the year. It is late May 2020, as we're told early on in the movie. We are set in the town of Eddington, which was filmed in a real town called Truth or Consequences, New Mexico. [00:06:40] Speaker A: Oh, that was Truth or Consequences. [00:06:41] Speaker B: Yeah, that was truth. Or parts of. Of it were Truth or Consequences. [00:06:44] Speaker A: Okay. [00:06:46] Speaker B: And it's the middle of COVID There's mass mania hysteria hysteria happening. And we are following Sheriff Joe Cross and Mayor Ted Garcia, who are the two main characters portrayed respectively, by Pedro Pascal or. Sorry. [00:07:04] Speaker A: Respectively. [00:07:04] Speaker B: Joaquin Phoenix and Pedro Pascal. And shit's going down. People are freaking out. All of what happened in 2020 that we all live during is happening simultaneously during the movie. And there is a lot of political division and emotional tension amongst everybody in the town. And People are losing their. Like, we all lost our. In real life. [00:07:27] Speaker A: I didn't. [00:07:28] Speaker B: You didn't lose your. [00:07:28] Speaker A: No, no, I. I had a very cushy 2020. [00:07:32] Speaker B: To be fair. I too, had a cushy 2020. [00:07:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:07:35] Speaker B: But I was like 15 years old and I was like, sitting in my room playing video games, and then, like, I would look at my phone and people are like, going crazy in the streets, and I'm like, oh, my gosh. It's all. It's all over. [00:07:44] Speaker A: I'm glad I'm not in the street. [00:07:45] Speaker B: Please, I'm just a boy. [00:07:47] Speaker C: I was in North Florida on a farm for four months when Covid started. [00:07:51] Speaker B: Oh. [00:07:52] Speaker C: I wasn't even around people. [00:07:54] Speaker B: Yeah, she was on her compound. [00:07:55] Speaker C: Yeah. Covid could have, like, not happened at all, and I wouldn't have known a difference. [00:07:58] Speaker B: Oh, I was a. [00:08:00] Speaker A: You guys were in lockdown already? [00:08:01] Speaker C: Yeah, I was just in the middle of nowhere. [00:08:04] Speaker A: Okay. [00:08:05] Speaker B: Okay. [00:08:05] Speaker A: So that. [00:08:05] Speaker B: All that said, we can kind of break this down and sort of figure out what's going on. But I want to first know, like, what were your guys big criticisms about Eddington? Like, I want to know what turned you off about Eddington or what didn't resonate. [00:08:19] Speaker A: Buckle down. [00:08:20] Speaker B: Okay. [00:08:21] Speaker A: It's dull as, first of all, like the. It has the typical Ari Aster slow burn opening where he's sort of setting things up. None of it resonated with me. I was not involved. I did not care about any of these characters. The biggest issue, I'm just going to go ahead and throw it out there, is that the movie revolves around Joaquim Phoenix. First of all, the movie has an all star cast. It has so many great players there. Emma Stone is in it, who is completely and ultimately utterly wasted. She does not have a single scene. She doesn't have a character. She's literally there. Like, I don't know why she signed up for this movie. It pissed me off so much. Austin Butler comes in for one scene where he's fantastic, but the scene should have been cut out because the movie was too long already and it did not resonate whatsoever. My big issue, though, is that this is a movie that easily should have been a. Like Magnolia been about all these characters that were there, but they. All the characters are just thinly presented. They're two dimensional. And the movie is very smug and cynical about everybody's intentions and why they do the things that they do. And then Joaquin Phoenix is the center of the movie and basically he's playing the joker. It's the same idea. A nebbish wimp who is being put on by society, who's being broken down until he starts killing people. And to spend the whole two and a half hours with this piece of shit who gets progressively more of a piece of shit. I do not want to be around this person. I see more interesting people around. Not that interesting though. Everybody seems basically like a piece of shit. Pedro Pascal is also wasted. His name is on the poster second after Joaquin Phoenix. He has maybe three scenes in the movie. We don't know really who he is. He is more like. Some people are like, oh, but he's like the other side of the coin. Like he's the politician, but he's also, you know, he's slimy and this and that. I don't really know if I get that possibly. So my big thing I can easily say there's a lot of thought put in the picture by Ari Aster. There's a lot of clever moments, there's a lot of smart observations. And he does some subplot mechanics that I find interesting that didn't quite, that didn't quite pan out. He has the whole thing with the data center underneath it all, but he keeps it so low in the subsequent story that it doesn't really resonate. Again, I'm using that word like nothing really resonates. And then a lot of it is just sort of cheap jokes and you have, basically it sort of redacts every single person into being that they're not doing these things because they feel deeply about something. It's all just performative. And I find that kind of insulting. I find it insulting that basically anybody who is the, who participated in Black Lives Matter protests in this movie is doing it for selfish reasons and not for the reasons that, you know, kicked off this anger and, and then it's just Joaquin Phoenix descending down. It got to the point where I was so disinterested in what was happening that I, I was happy when he finally killed somebody because I'm like, finally something's happening. I think I had some problems with the antifa stuff at the end, but now I have a clearer picture of what he was doing with that. So it's not as far fetched as I initially thought. But again, he layers these things with that data center so far down and especially when I'm watching in a shitty ass projection where I can't make the visual connections that I'm supposed to be making. But again, I still think that a lot of people missed it. You know, it's nice that he kept things subtle, but I think he almost kept it too subtle. And I've just talked way enough and I'm just repeating myself, but those were kind of my. My major issues with it. Stephanie, I see. I saw some agreement with you. [00:12:10] Speaker C: I completely agree. Actually, I'm very glad you said those things because you said it a lot better than I could have. But I think in the trailer, all of these characters got such, like, an equal presentation. And going into the movie, I was really excited to see these characters lives. Yeah, I mean, I was super interested in. I think his name was Vernon. Like, the Jesus character. [00:12:36] Speaker B: Yeah, Vernon. Jefferson. [00:12:36] Speaker A: Pete. [00:12:37] Speaker C: Yeah, like, Vernon. And like Emma Stone's character and like, that little subplot. Like, I was super interested in that. And I went into the theater, like, waiting for Vernon to show up because he seemed to have, like, this really cool presence in the trailer. And he showed up for, like, three seconds, like, took the guy's wife and [00:12:57] Speaker A: what's a lengthy scene. [00:12:58] Speaker B: He had a whole monologue. [00:12:59] Speaker A: That was my. Yeah, that was. It was. It felt really long to me. [00:13:03] Speaker C: It felt really short because I wanted so much more from that. [00:13:06] Speaker A: Sure. I wanted more. Well, I wanted either less or I wanted more. You know what I mean? Like, either cut it out completely or devote some time to it and actually have it mean something. [00:13:14] Speaker C: Yeah. So, like, for, like, for those characters and then like Pedro Pascal's character, like, I would have wanted them to have so much more in this movie. And I think the issue was that he started these subplots. Like, he gave us the opportunity for these to be really cool subplots in this movie. And it felt like he almost didn't commit to it. So, like, we saw. We saw like, this. This beginning. Like, okay, this is really cool. What's her story? Like, there's little. There's little, you know, crumbles of, like, details and background that gets us interested, and then there's no commitment to satisfy us to who these people are and why we should care about their lives and that, you know, like, why should we care that she left and that she's interested in this Jesus guy? And, like, why should we care that Pedro Pascal sucks? And, like, you know. [00:14:06] Speaker A: But does he suck? Like, I don't know. I never. [00:14:08] Speaker B: Oh, he sucks. Well, that's what I find very clear, that he sucks. [00:14:11] Speaker A: I don't think. I mean, you know, sucks in a political way, maybe, but, like, I don't know who he is as a person. I don't know what he actually stands for. [00:14:20] Speaker B: Okay. [00:14:20] Speaker A: He Just, I mean, like, he sucks in a way that most politicians do, but I don't think he did anything that was that ridiculous. [00:14:27] Speaker C: Well, that was the issue. They told us that he sucks, right? But they never showed us blatantly what this guy is doing to make him suck. Like, they. They made like, oh, you know, he wants to build this weird empire, and, like, he's not practicing what he's preaching, and, like, these things are kind of bad. But, like, I wanted to see him do something that was just like, okay, this guy is scummy. Like, I wanted to see that in the movie. [00:14:52] Speaker A: More importantly, I wanted to see who he was as a person versus who he is as a politician. I wanted to, you know, the same amount of time that was given to Joaquim I would have liked to have given to Pedro Pascal, since this is. This is in its soul. I mean, this is the showdown between these two. You know, like, the Western themes are in this movie. [00:15:10] Speaker B: We have a Western standoff. [00:15:11] Speaker A: Yeah, we have a Western standoff. And I mean, it's even a shot as a western standoff. Like, the first time they. [00:15:15] Speaker B: They six feet apart, right? [00:15:19] Speaker A: It is. And again, those. Ari clearly has these things layered into it that are funny and. And that thought is put into it. But I just think that he focused, unfortunately, on the wrong character. Okay, I could have handled him if he would have been one of many. If it would have been an eclectic cast and many. And we would have paid attention to all these people. And then you would sort of check in while Joaquin Phoenix, who's sort of mentally breaking down. But to put the focus completely on him just tore me away from the movie. And I just. I could not care as much as they wanted me to. [00:15:51] Speaker C: And that was one of. One of my issues was that this was. This was supposed to be, like, politically, like, okay, there's the left and the right, and these are, like, the pros and cons between both of these and, like, why we should care. But I think because they focused on Joaquin Phoenix so much, it felt almost like they were trying to pull us to the right here. And, like. But, like, not enough that he was making a statement. And, like, maybe I didn't get what he was trying to say. So I'm like, I'm depending on Alex to give us that point of view, but just, like, from me and what I saw, I couldn't figure out what he was trying to tell us. Like, I couldn't figure out whose side he was on or if he wasn't on his side. Like what that balance was, and that left me wanting more. [00:16:34] Speaker B: Okay. I've been taking everything you guys have been saying. [00:16:38] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:39] Speaker B: Somehow in many ways, I feel like we didn't watch the same movie. And it's really weird because there's, like, certain things that you guys are saying that, like, didn't resonate with you guys, but resonated so much with me. And, and even now that I'm kind of removed from the movie, like a week now, almost exactly a week, I still feel as strongly as I did the day that I came in and I was saying everything that I was saying. What I think is so special about this movie is that any other director would have made this movie and would have tried. And Ari Asher kind of said this in an interview. He kind of alluded to it. Any other director. He didn't say, like, how I'm saying it, but any paraphrasing? Yeah, I'm paraphrasing. Any other director would try to make this movie and try to offer a solution. They would say, look, this is what was happening. This is how we all need to come together in a good, positive way and fix all these problems and, and recover from all this hurtful stuff that happened all these years ago, five years ago and all this. And, you know, America's not like this anymore. We've healed from it. But Ari Astra is not doing that. He's saying, look, this is the problem. This is what happened and this is what's still happening in America. And he's not saying, oh, you know, I'm. I'm a Republican or I'm a conservative or I'm a liberal or I'm a Libertarian or I'm Democrat. What? He's not saying what he is. Everybody gets the. In this movie, nobody's safe. All the characters, I mean, you have your political fanatics, you have your religious fanatics in. In Vernon, Jefferson. Vernon, Jefferson Peak. You have your conspiracy theorists in. And I forget her, the actress's name, but she was phenomenal in this movie. Yeah. The mother in law don't. Yeah. In her. And, and I think what's so special about Joaquin Phoenix's character, and I personally didn't have a problem following him throughout the movie, is that in many ways he doesn't have any actual beliefs of his own. So we're seeing him. And yeah, it does feel like at times he's. He's like this conservative, sort of anti mask, anti this and that person. But when we really, like look at him, he doesn't have any beliefs of his own. When he decides to run for mayor, it's all to try to appease the mother in law and the wife. He's an insecure individual who, who, who lacks any stances of his own. And when he does finally take it, yeah, he's frustrated. And when we see him in the, in the grocery store letting the people in and saying, no, I don't want to wear a mask. But when he finally gets on the phone and records himself, he's not doing it with his own beliefs in mind. He's doing it to try to satisfy his wife and his mother who, who asks him, oh, when are you going to stand up to that guy? Speaking of Ted Garcia, of Pedro Pascal's character. And, and we see this so often where people don't actually have any stands, but they want to stand for something just because someone is telling them to or because they feel like they should. And even to what you guys were saying about the Black Lives Matter protest and everything like that. I mean, when, when he first hears about what's happening with George Floyd, he's actually like, gets up and he's like, oh, like, that was not good. That was not right. What happened there? I mean, it was the other guy that was like, oh, he was, he was like on drugs or whatever. But he gets up and he's like, what happened to that guy is not okay. And when he runs out there, it's just pure hysteria. But he, he's, he's playing his role as, as a. Trying to keep the peace. And the whole movie, he is just progressively becoming who everybody wants him to be, but not actually taking a stand of his own. And I think this movie is not just going after the people who take these really strong stances one way or the other, but also the people who kind of like just follow what everybody else is telling them to do. And we see that in Brian, which is one of the storylines that develops throughout the movie. [00:20:11] Speaker A: Brian's just trying to get laid. [00:20:12] Speaker B: Brian's just trying to get laid. [00:20:14] Speaker A: And he's, he is, I think behind Joaquin Phoenix, one of the most despicable characters. [00:20:18] Speaker B: Yeah. And he's doing all this why? Because he wants to get laid. And then at the end of the movie, without, you know, getting there yet, we see him completely 180 for fame. And it's just like we all know these people. We know those conspiracy theorists, we know and, and to the point about Emma Stone and Austin Blair. And this is the last thing I'll say before we kind of open up the discussion for Everybody. I do think there could have been more of them. I know the movie was like three hours and something and, and he cut down the whole movie to get everything to work. [00:20:48] Speaker A: He should have kept cutting. [00:20:49] Speaker B: But I think with what was there, it does the purpose of making the point that he's trying to make. Emma Stone's character doesn't have any like strong scenes of her own, but I, I think that was the point. She's like a ghost. I don't know if you guys have ever been in a relationship where like, it gets to the point where the other person that you're with, like, becomes completely apathetic and like, are worried about the wrong things and just like become like a, like, like a ghost. Like you, like, they're not, they don't even get mad anymore. [00:21:17] Speaker A: Do I need Emma Stone to play a ghost? [00:21:19] Speaker B: Why not? I mean, she wants to be in the movie. She loves his, she loves his work. And, and, and why are we complaining? [00:21:25] Speaker A: Because I think she's one of the greatest actors. Actors of our generation. And I think it' waste to put her into the movie and do nothing with her. [00:21:32] Speaker B: No, I mean, they did something with her. She, she did her role. [00:21:36] Speaker A: She's a plot. [00:21:36] Speaker B: Yeah, but she, she, she was a great plot point is what I'm saying. I mean, I thought she did a fantastic job. [00:21:40] Speaker A: Could have been that plot point. [00:21:41] Speaker B: Do you think so? [00:21:42] Speaker A: Yeah. 100. [00:21:43] Speaker B: Really? [00:21:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:21:43] Speaker B: Okay. [00:21:44] Speaker A: I disagree that, that didn't need a special talent of, of a major started. You're paying a lot of money for it to just put her in to do that. [00:21:50] Speaker B: But if she wants to be in the role, I mean, sure, get her, then I would. [00:21:53] Speaker C: Sure. [00:21:53] Speaker A: But I just feel as a director you sort of are like, maybe he should have said, I want you to save you for something better than this. [00:21:59] Speaker C: Okay. [00:22:00] Speaker A: Unless she had some scenes he cut out in his three and a half hour version. [00:22:02] Speaker B: I'm sure there is some more scenes. And then as far as like Vernon, Jefferson, Pete goes, Austin Butler's character, I thought he was great. He did. [00:22:09] Speaker A: He kind of does what he normally does these days. Like he kind of comes in the middle of the movie, has like a strong scene and then disappears again. The same as he does in Dune 2. [00:22:16] Speaker B: And he was fantastic in it. And I think he was probably great. [00:22:19] Speaker A: Yeah. In the scene. But again, it was just at that point I was already checked out completely and, and said why. Why are we even pursuing this? If you're. And then he doesn't pursue it, it just becomes a plot point. In the sense that he needs his, you know, it's one more embarrassment that he has to suffer at his, at his own hands. Not, I'm not trying to put him as a, as, as any kind of martyr. I mean it's just one more embarrassing thing that he does to himself that he drives her away and, and then, you know, he goes lower in his mental state. That was a better word. But yeah, I mean I, I do [00:22:53] Speaker C: have to disagree that Joaquin Phoenix is a middle party. I think Brian is a really good middle party because we do see him play both sides opportunist. I think that Joaquin Phoenix is that right sided person because from the people that I know that are very much like conservative right side people, they think like that they're not like actively being like, oh, that side is stupid. And this and this. It's always like, oh, that was bad. But I didn't do anything and this person didn't do anything. So why do we have to suffer? Because something bad happened over there. Like he has that whole speech and that's the thought process behind a lot of right winged people. It's like why do we have to put in any work or any effort or care about this when it's happening on that side of the world? It's not happening to us. So it's not our problem. And that is the mindset that he has. So I think that Ari Aster did a good job of representing that. [00:23:54] Speaker A: And can I just step in there? I think also that's important to note because this, who is saying this is not our problem. There's no covet here. He's the guy who starts coming down. He's one who brings it to the town basically. [00:24:06] Speaker B: I think it's the, the and, and this is another like kind of plot point that I was talking about with somebody, the homeless guy that shows up at the beginning. Yeah, he's the one bringing. He's like the, he's death entering the town. Basically the beginning he's holding a dead pigeon or dove in his hand the whole movie. Is he. Yeah, he's holding a dead bird. It was, there was a close up shot. [00:24:26] Speaker A: No, no, no, I'm not complaining about ar Sunset Place. I couldn't see it. Oh, okay. [00:24:29] Speaker B: Yeah, so the whole movie he's holding a dead bird in his hand. So he's bringing death into the town basically. And yeah, he is the. And like he's that. That's why I felt like Ariaster is also saying, look, this is my main character, but him too. He's also an idiot. He's not trying to redeem him or say, look, this is a good guy. This is how you should live. This is how you should believe. [00:24:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:24:46] Speaker B: And. And what he's doing, the whole movie, he's being manipulated, as the car says, he's being manipulated by these people around him, by external. At least I felt, by external forces influencing him. And yes, maybe at his heart, he does have, like, some not. Not nationalist, but, like, isolationist ideas about the town of Eddington. He's a small town. Oh, this is my town. You know, there's nothing happening here, which is up. But then we see how that kind of mindset later on comes back to bite him. [00:25:18] Speaker A: I. There's a couple things I want to mention. Yeah. I mean, I wasn't looking for a polemic where he would say, this is the answer. [00:25:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:24] Speaker A: There is no answer. [00:25:25] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:25:26] Speaker A: But I also think that he goes in the other direction where he's just like, everybody's. We're. Everybody sucks. You know, look at these people. Look why they're doing it. This is. Nothing comes from a genuine place. And I just sort of feel like that's not fair. The other thing was the. I want to address two things, and it's not to say that you're wrong, but I wanted to add one more thing to that. I really think that Joaquin Phoenix's character. What he really suffers from, and you did say the word absolutely. Is his insecurities. And everything builds from those insecurities. The reason he runs for mayor, I thought, was because it comes right after he faces down Pedro Pascal in the. In the grocery store and is basically kicked out because he. He loses that fight. [00:26:08] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:09] Speaker A: And that's when he's like, I'm running for mayor so I don't have to wear a mask. You know, he's. He's a supremely pathetic person because he allows all these things to eat at him, and then he lashes out based on them. Thought that was one of the more interesting things in it. I mean, you know, we get to. He has his tete a tetes with Pedro Pascal. Never enough for me to really be like, this is something special. But there is that great moment where he responds to the noise complaints. [00:26:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:35] Speaker A: And he goes to the party. And again, because he's such a pathetic character and he handles it so badly. This is. He handled every situation really badly. This is a person who should not be a sheriff, who should not be in charge of. And they make that clear. That he got the job from his dad. [00:26:50] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:50] Speaker A: And when he runs for mayor, Pedro Pascal says the smart thing. You can't run your own police station with two deputies. [00:26:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:59] Speaker A: And you want to run the city. And so again, he goes into the situation. He handles it poorly rather than even telling him, we have a noise complaint, I have to shut you down. The idiot goes up to the radio and just turns it down and thinks that. And you know, and thinks again, I'm the sheriff. I do something, and it must be respected. [00:27:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:27:15] Speaker C: That is such, like, toddler mindset. And I thought this while watching the movie that, like, that's. That's something like a younger sibling would do, that they would just walk into your room and turn off your music and then stomp away and be like. And not say anything. [00:27:28] Speaker A: Right. And not say anything. [00:27:30] Speaker C: It was so satisfying to see Pedro Pascal slap the shit twice. Joaquin Phoenix. [00:27:37] Speaker A: It's so demeaning and deserved because as the setup to that is, you know, where he gives that. He's right. He's trying to have his political rally. [00:27:44] Speaker B: Yeah. It comes right after he accuses him of rape. [00:27:47] Speaker A: Oh, my goodness. Now that, you know, again, credit to where credit is due. That's a great scene. His acting in that scene is fantastic. How he is. Again, his pathetic ness, like the. He's not prepared. He cannot give a speech. He cannot talk to these people. And he's notices that as he starts getting, you know, deeper and deeper and trying to get himself out, suddenly he's like. And he's a pedophile. I need to tell you about this. You know, And. And so that was one of. One of the great moments. But again, I would rather see it within other great moments from other characters. I don't think that this man's downfall is worthy of two and a half hours of the film's runtime. The other thing that I have. Yeah. I kind of want to disagree, considering how cynical the movie is when he says, yes, it's wrong. When he sees what happened to George Floyd, that seemed performative to me. That seemed like. That he's mimicking what a police officer is saying. Yes, it's wrong, but there's a silent button there, you know, so he does try to throw in some very kind of surface level good things that he does. Like he buys the groceries for the other guy who didn't have the mask. He tries to give the water to the unhoused person. [00:29:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:29:01] Speaker A: But again, I think even the movie itself is saying that, like, these are just. These are just small things that he thinks will make him look good. [00:29:08] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:29:09] Speaker A: This is not that it comes from a good part in himself. [00:29:12] Speaker C: Well, yeah, when it comes to, like, the performativity of these people, that is such a running. I don't want to say gag, but like, such a running plot line. [00:29:21] Speaker A: It is kind of a comedy, too. I mean, I think it is like a very, very dark comedy. So I would say it's a running gag. [00:29:27] Speaker C: And I think that Emma Stone was the only person who was genuine in her concerns about people, because every. [00:29:37] Speaker A: Where did you see that? Where did you. [00:29:39] Speaker C: When she's kind of burst out at the dinner table and goes, like, this shouldn't be happening. This is wrong. You guys don't understand. Like, this is like a real problem that you guys are, like, talking over. And I think that was such a genuine moment because that's what piqued me when I was watching the movie. Like, I was. That was kind of like a dull. I was in a lull there, and then she burst out and I was like, okay, this is something that's happening. But with Pedro Pascal, he only cares about social distancing because if his son doesn't, it makes him look bad because it's his thing. But then he's throwing these little get togethers at his house where he invites a bunch of people, but they were masked. [00:30:21] Speaker A: I don't know. I didn't. I noticed. [00:30:23] Speaker C: But you're not supposed to. During COVID Yeah. You know, he can gather, but his son can only see one friend. [00:30:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:29] Speaker C: Because it would make him feel bad. [00:30:31] Speaker B: And. And the whole thing. [00:30:32] Speaker A: I mean, he lets him go to see one. [00:30:34] Speaker C: He said. But Brian. [00:30:35] Speaker A: Yeah, but he knows it's not going to be one. [00:30:37] Speaker B: Does he, though? [00:30:38] Speaker A: Yeah, but he's. [00:30:39] Speaker C: But it's. [00:30:40] Speaker A: I mean, his son basically said it, and then he's just like. It's. It seems to me like he's just saying it again to feel like he's in power. [00:30:45] Speaker C: But it's that performative nature of wanting to do these things that are good. And like, all of these characters, you know, Joaquin Phoenix does it. All the people. Like the people with the Black Lives Matter. Like, some of them are doing it to get laid. Some of them are doing it because, you know, they want to feel less guilty about being white or. [00:31:05] Speaker A: Or be praised. Like it's the social justice world. No. What is. It's not just worth. I'm thinking the. The virtue signaling. Oh, yeah. Virtual signaling. Yeah. Look how virtuous I am. Yeah. [00:31:14] Speaker C: And that was like a big thing throughout the movie. So I. I still feel like if Aryaster would have given the rest of these characters a chance to develop. We would have been able to see what their true motives are. Like, I would have loved to see the motives of these people to be doing what they're doing. And I think if he gave them the chance to really develop into well rounded characters, it would have made me like the movie so much more. But because we were stuck behind Joaquin Phoenix's point of view, it's really hard to get attached to these other characters. [00:31:53] Speaker B: Yeah, I just, I have to disagree. I think what he did to show us the motivations of these characters wasn't. I felt like I understood the motivation of pretty much all the major character. Pedro Pascal's character is only motivated by staying in power of Eddington. The first time we see him with the guy that's kind of pulling the strings behind the scenes of his life, he's not wearing his mask, he's complaining about how it's hot and making his face hot while he's signing the paperwork for the, the data center. And the guy says, oh, put on your mask for the photo. And he's like, oh, it's hot. I don't like wearing it. He's like, oh no, it'll look good. And then right after he goes and bitches out his son for going, just takes out his anger on his son for going and, and not social distancing. When we just saw, he really doesn't give a fuck about. So he just wants what's going to look good for him. So there for him we have a motivation for Emma Stone's character, which I'm not trying to diss you guys interpretation by the way, for Emma Stone's character, I felt like, we understand she is completely mentally ill with that mother. With that one. And she wants approval from her mother. She's desires approval from her mother. So what does she do? She starts looking into the same conspiracy theory that her mother is into to try to be like, look mom, look at me. Virtue signaling to her mother's for the, the virtues that appeal to her mother. And in doing that, her mental illness gets to the point where she starts to believe this stuff and then falls in with Jefferson Peak who's selling bullshit. And the scene where they're there sitting and he's talking about, oh, I was taken into the forest and stripped naked. And then the people and. And it's like at that scene, the only person that felt like was making sense to me was Joaquin Phoenix's character who's like, wait, but is this actually fucking happening? And Everybody is like, oh, yeah, like I understand what you're going through, but this guy, do we know if he actually went through that or is he just selling this, this story? And then, and then what you're saying about how Emma Stone's character, like, she was making sense and saying, like, oh, oh, like the. What's it called? Oh, yeah, this is happening. This is a real issue. It's like you're, you're talking about this issue, but the real issue is what's happening in the world. And you're worried about these conspiracy theories that you guys are wasting your time thinking about. Because what she was saying, this is actually happening, was when she was talking about the children being kidnapped and taken out into the force and the corporations. [00:34:07] Speaker C: I mean, I was under the impression that she was actually, like, molested as a child. [00:34:11] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, yeah. [00:34:12] Speaker C: And that's why she. [00:34:13] Speaker A: And the mom's denying it. [00:34:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:18] Speaker C: These, like, issues that were happening, why [00:34:19] Speaker A: she's going insane because her mom is basically saying that didn't happen. I don't believe you. And if it did happen, it was actually Pedro Pascal, which is a horrible thing for her to do. The mama is, Is disgusting. [00:34:31] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:34:31] Speaker A: I, My argument is not so much that we don't understand the motivations. I, I think we do. Or as far as in the script, it not, not like it comes out of nowhere, but it just feels so one dimensional that everybody is just basically, oh, they're doing it for this selfish reason. They're doing it for this selfish reason. Like, I think it's just. I do not respond well to Ari Oster in this case. And I think it shows up in mid summer too, actually. He basically has this worldview that everybody is just kind of a piece of shit. And it works well in something like Midsummer, especially because the main character isn't. Is a little bit more. The word is not likable. I don't care about likable. [00:35:12] Speaker B: Ambiguous. [00:35:12] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, like you are okay with being around this person. You understand what she has been through and whatever things that she's doing that are kind of obnoxious. You're like, I get where that's coming from. But, but generally speaking, like, he doesn't have a very high opinion apparently, of people in general. And then to take that opinion and then put it in this, in this situation where really we need, we need more depth for it between all the characters, for it to really resonate and really mean something to us. To just kind of be this cynical jokester, almost smarmy in the way he portrays all these people. It's oppressive. And I. No, I love it. [00:35:53] Speaker C: No, I. I see what you're saying. And it feels to me like a more dreadful version of Magnolia, like where Magnolia showed us all of these people and, like, they're all kind of shitty, but there's hope. At the end. It felt like that, but there's no hope. [00:36:10] Speaker A: Yeah. And they don't have two sides. Just have the one side here, as opposed to. [00:36:13] Speaker C: Yeah. To me, it just felt like they're shitty. They're shitty. The world's shitty. And I was like, well, no shit. Yeah. [00:36:20] Speaker A: I don't need two and a half hours of this to go. To say no shit. [00:36:23] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:36:24] Speaker B: And, like, in the wake of our episode of Magnolia, it's kind of like the perfect time because we discussed on that episode where PTA has so much empathy towards all his characters. He's empathetic towards them. He. He puts a piece of himself in all these characters, whereas Ari. Esther doesn't do that. [00:36:38] Speaker A: No. [00:36:39] Speaker B: No empathy for his characters. Even in Midsommar. Even in Hereditary. [00:36:42] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:36:42] Speaker B: Even Beau is afraid. He has no empathy towards these characters because these characters are maybe, are necessarily, in some ways him. And he's maybe putting pieces of them in there, I would assume. [00:36:52] Speaker A: But he wrote it too. [00:36:54] Speaker B: Exactly. But what he's writing really is other people. He's, like, looking at other people and describing that. He. He said in an interview recently, this is the movie that Twitter wrote. He's like, I was in Covid, losing my mind at home, looking at social media, looking at everything that was happening and seeing people colliding and going at each other and just being, like, divided by ideology. And I wrote that movie. I wrote what I was seeing happening in the world. And so that's what I mean. Yes. Paul Thomas Anderson. I love Paul Thomas Anderson because he has so much empathy towards his characters. And you feel that connection towards every character and you, like, almost love them in a way. [00:37:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:37:31] Speaker B: But here. [00:37:32] Speaker A: Perfect. [00:37:32] Speaker B: Yeah. Nobody's lovable. Nobody. You hate them. [00:37:35] Speaker A: I hate them. [00:37:36] Speaker B: And he. To me. [00:37:37] Speaker A: But not even enjoy hating them. I just hate them. You know, there's just some things that were. Yeah, go, finish, finish. [00:37:43] Speaker B: I will say this. I knew a family. I'm not going to get into details because I don't know who's going to listen to this, but I knew not my family, but a family of people and a certain individual that I was involved with who was. Was like these people in this hardcore conspiracy theorist, mentally ill. Like. And so in seeing this and seeing how like, they all would, like, just blow each other. And I mean this in like a figurative way. Like, like, oh, yes, like, this is what you want me to be. This is how I'm gonna be to make you happy. Okay? And this is what you believe, so I will believe this. And I see so many of these people around, especially, like, I was just talking about recently a class that I have where like, the professor just spews all his bullshit for two and a half hours, right wing rants, and nobody says anything, nobody argues. And the people that are there just kind of like agree and nod their head. And it's just like, we see the same in this movie where people are, like, using their platform and using their space to say these things and say the, and show everything that they feel and nobody stops them. And like, when, like, I don't know, I, I personally, it's our place to stop them. [00:38:54] Speaker A: I don't know, I, I, you know, because you're not going to make anything better by telling them to. [00:38:58] Speaker B: And, and maybe we're not going to change their mind. But I feel that that's what's so special about this movie is that it calls all that out where, like, nobody has done that yet about 2020 and about this kind of time period. Like, people allude to it metaphorically and they'll use, you know, like, different situations to represent what's happening in the world, to represent what's happening specifically in, like, modern day America. But nobody has had the guts to, like, go there and say, look, like these kinds of people are doing these things and this is what's at the root of everything that's happening. I don't think anybody's done that yet about today. And that's why I think this movie, in my opinion, is the movie of the year. Because it, it represents everything that we've lived through and that we're living through right now. I mean, go look at the news. It's, it's everything that's still happening. And it's all in the wake of what happened in 2020. And so, like, that's why reverberations, reverberations was the word I was looking for. And like, Ari, Esther says, fuck you, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna tell this story. I'm gonna say everything that's wrong, I'm gonna come after everybody. I'm not necessarily gonna say, oh, this is my politics. No, I'm just gonna say, this is why everybody else's politics fucking sucks. It's very like, like, but it's just [00:40:00] Speaker A: kind of an easy. Like everybody sucks. Everybody's, you know, cynical. And. And I just, I don't think it is that easy. I. I think actually what he is going for is this idea that everything that we're seeing is just noise while the real evil is that corporation that's trying to put that data center in there. That's. That's what that is the main idea there. That this is all noise, this is all just sideshow, this is all circus. And meanwhile the real evil is underneath everything who are. You know, it's these guys who just want to get their data center built. Yeah. And that will be on Native American land. That will cause problems for the, for the water and of course. And I didn't catch this. I'm not going to take credit for. Yeah. That they were the guys who hired Antifa. [00:40:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:40:47] Speaker A: I mean, there was a close up on the logo of the airplane, but I couldn't make it out. [00:40:51] Speaker B: Yeah. So it was a hand hold holding a globe. [00:40:53] Speaker A: Right. Which was apparently the. [00:40:55] Speaker B: The company Magikarp Solid Gold magic carp. And like, I don't know that I talked to my sister about it and she said that that didn't come through to her. The underlying stuff about. About the corporation, how they're trying to build this on this land, about the homeless guy who everybody's ignoring. He's losing his and like rambling and everybody's just like going about their day, like worried about what's like bothering them, but nobody's paying attention to the people that are actually. And then when Antifa comes in and destroys everything, people are still like being pitted against each other, but they're not realistic. Coming like from something more powerful. That came through to me. [00:41:30] Speaker A: It didn't come through to me enough. [00:41:31] Speaker C: That did not come through to me. [00:41:33] Speaker B: Okay. [00:41:34] Speaker C: Till this moment, I had no idea why or where the fuck the terrorist group came from. [00:41:41] Speaker A: Or like, why are they flying on a. On a. On a private jet? [00:41:44] Speaker C: Yeah, I was watching it and I was just like, oh, they did all this so Joaquin Phoenix could have his goddamn James Bond moment and shoot a gun in like a circle for like. [00:41:54] Speaker A: Which was still pathetic. [00:41:55] Speaker B: That was fucking amazing. I love this. [00:41:57] Speaker A: No, that was cool. That was cool. [00:41:58] Speaker B: Sorry. [00:41:59] Speaker C: So like, I. That would have been like, great if that came through for me. I would have been like, okay, that means something at least. [00:42:07] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:42:07] Speaker C: But I just didn't. See, this is why I wanted you to say this, because I had no idea that that was even a part of anything. I just thought, okay, there's this stupid corporation. They're afraid of terrorists and, like, all of these conspiracy things. Maybe they exist. I have no idea. I just want the movie to be over. But, like. [00:42:28] Speaker A: Right. It's the message that's, like. I keep saying the word resonate, and it's sort of like the message is smart. There are really great observations. There are some really darkly funny moments that I laugh too, but. But it's. The package that it's being brought in is just. Does not resonate with me. It doesn't. It doesn't make me that interested in what's going on. [00:42:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:42:49] Speaker A: And. And again, you know, this is tricky stuff. And. And this is why we also have to give credit to Arioster, is that the whole idea of this corporation, it's difficult because my whole thing was, like, it didn't. It didn't really register enough. Kind of the point, though, isn't it, that. Yeah, it's so happening underneath everything that we kind of have to. [00:43:08] Speaker B: We're all distracted by the noise. We're caught up in our own issues and our. And everything that's happening that we're distracted from what's actually going on. And when I watched the movie for the first time, I was noticing, because it's really funny that the two days before that, on Tuesday in my international relations class, we were talking about domestic policy and how these data mines are, like, real things that are happening right now in the U.S. like nationals, foreign nationals, are buying land in the U.S. to build data centers to fund AI to power. AI to power, like, crypto mining our environment, destroying our environment, drawing water from towns that need it. Because those. Those mines, the bigger ones, can be as big as four football fields and can use as much energy as 80,000 homes. And the whole time from, like, the opening scene, you're seeing people, the sign, this is protesting. You know, don't build. [00:43:55] Speaker A: Right. Don't build. Protests. [00:43:56] Speaker B: Yeah, don't build the. Don't build the thing. And when I was watching the movie that I saw the antifa thing and I saw the hand holding the globe, at first I was like, oh, is he saying, like, that the government sent these people in? But then I was like, no, because he's criticizing people that are theorizing about the government, what's happening. So what's he actually criticizing? And then it clicked in my head as I was leaving the theater. Okay, that was solid gold Magikarp. [00:44:18] Speaker A: Exactly. Yeah. I mean, I caught the fact that he clearly was showing us that logo on the back of the plane for like. Yeah, I was like, he's trying to tell us something. But again, like I can barely see the movie. So I kind of was like, I know you're trying to tell me something. Same thing where, where the last shot is and the end credits run over that data center. [00:44:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:44:37] Speaker A: I was like, I know you're trying to tell us something, but I just couldn't put it together. [00:44:41] Speaker C: Y couldn't figure it out when I was watching the movie. [00:44:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:44:44] Speaker A: And. But here's, here's my issue though is I don't want to let the movie off the hook. Like, cuz I was thinking about it and I was like, dude, I should really watch it again to see if I can, you know, put it all together myself and see like in a better, better auditorium, better version, better quality. But I don't want to. And that's where it comes down to the package. Like, I'm like, I don't like the package you're delivering me. And I, and I just, I cannot be around that character again. I already hated it when he played it as, as the Joker. I couldn't stand it then, I can't stand it now. It's also like he puts on this marble mouthed accent that like I couldn't understand half of what he said. And so it's difficult. You know, there's a part of me that's like, I really want to kind of get on that wavelength with him because I think he is saying worthwhile stuff and I think he's doing it pretty cleverly. But the, I think the package of the characters and the individual scenes themselves were not grabbing me enough to want to go through this again and be really like, oh, this is what you were doing. [00:45:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:45:39] Speaker A: Having said that, you want to say [00:45:41] Speaker C: yeah, because you had asked me a separate time whether I thought this was more like Bo is afraid or mid summer. I think it's more like Beau was afraid. I think you disagreed. [00:45:53] Speaker B: I do disagree. I think to Paul's point earlier about how he's playing Joker. I don't think he was playing Joker. I think he was playing a different version of Beau from Beau is afraid, just as scared of the world, just as anxious and just going on a similar journey. But for me this was so much like Midsommar because there's a character surrounded by a bunch of pieces of. In their immediate friend group and then surrounded by like a town in like, like the town, the commune and everything is fueled by mass hysteria and like group think like community, you know, like the Crucible. This town in Massachusetts. Yeah. Like Salem, Massachusetts, witch hunt. Like everybody's losing their mind over this thing. Like, everybody's freaking out. And so in that way, for me, this was a lot like Midsommar. But I think it's his most polished movie of all his movies. This movie for me is his best movie so far. It's the movie that has made the clearest message, has been the most cynical, has been the funniest. For me, out of all his movies, I think this movie's for. For me, this is a black comedy. It's not. It's nothing but a comedy. Yes to drama. [00:47:00] Speaker A: It's. It's more than that. I really. I think that was a problem also, is that. Is that it's been advertised to people as a comedy. [00:47:08] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:47:08] Speaker A: That like, they'll say, you know, western comedy, something. [00:47:11] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:47:11] Speaker A: And a lot of people go in and they're like, but this wasn't funny. And Because I'm like, well, no, because I'm like, but this is not a traditional comedy. [00:47:17] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:47:18] Speaker A: You know, this is finding humor in the blackest of. Of situations. You know, the darkest of situations. I do want to mention the part I laughed the loudest, which was when Brian is trying to tell his. To his parents and he. Are you. I lost it. And there were. There were some great moments like that, I think even some small things that were hidden in there. You showed it on the shirt. But I, I saw it in the movie yesterday was like, he's trying to. It's trying to say on the car, you're being manipulated. But it's being wrong. It says you're. You're being manipulated. Even the, the fact that little details like Pedro Pascal is the rich guy. Right. And this is May 2020. Right. Like we, we could only get like the shittiest masks. Right. He has the K95 mask, you know, that nobody else would have had at that time. [00:48:09] Speaker B: Like the nice fancy mask. [00:48:10] Speaker A: The nice fancy mask that were like the best ones, still comfortable and. But. But kind of filtered out the most germs and stuff. [00:48:17] Speaker B: Speaking of detail, I'm going to ask you now in a second why you thought it was more like Bows Afraid. Because I do want to hear your take on that one more detail that I noticed. And I'm gonna take credit for this one because I was really proud of noticing this. I did. I promise you. I've not looked at IMDb. I haven't looked at anything about this movie. In the opening scene when he's sitting there in the car, there's actually two things I'm gonna point out when he's sitting there in the car and the other. The native reservation police show up and, like, the red lights are flashing on his face. It's almost shot for. Shot identical for the beginning of Midsommar when the suicide happens and the red lights. The police flute. Blue and red lights are flashing. The red and blue, the red and blue. But also when they jump inside the car of the. There's like a quick cut scene to the car of the two native police officers. I don't know if it's his car or the two native police officers, but there's a copy of the Scarlet Letter sitting in the car on the passenger. Like in the. In the. Like the. The center. And I'm like, that's so funny to put the Scarlet Letter right in here when you're making a movie about a sickness. I was like, that's just so clever. That's. That. I don't think a lot of people would. Would have thought to put in there. [00:49:15] Speaker A: Yeah. There's. There's no question that he's a thoughtful individual. And he was the main reason I wanted to see this. [00:49:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:49:23] Speaker A: I just. I guess it will come from the fact that I saw. I've only seen Midsommar from all his movies. And so I liked what I saw there. I'm like. I see this as a guy who really is thinking of things and he knows where to put the camera. He's doing everything. Everything seems to be on purpose. [00:49:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:49:40] Speaker A: And so I was just expecting a little. But I hadn't. I hadn't seen enough his movies to really know how he. His deeply cynical view of all people. You know, like. Yeah, it's in Midsummer. That doesn't mean I'm gonna think it's in all of his movies. Right. And. And so maybe it's my fault for expecting something else from what he's gonna do with the characters. But I just can't say I. I get on that wavelength. [00:50:03] Speaker B: Yeah. Ari Astro, someone that has an evolution. And like, this is the most confident movie yet. But all his movies are very similar. It's not so much of an evolution, but more of like a refine. Yeah. Fine tuning. And there's a moment that now when we get. I want to touch on. But there's a moment in Hereditary that is almost as cynical as one of the very cynical moments in this movie. And I'll get to. But I wanted to ask, why did you think it was so much like Beau's Afraid? What was your take on that? [00:50:28] Speaker C: I will be honest I haven't seen Beau's Afraid for a very long time. [00:50:32] Speaker B: Okay. [00:50:33] Speaker C: And there's so much that happens in that movie that I can't remember all of it. But to me, this. This movie just felt like we're just following this scared, pathetic, insecure man in this world full of noise and chaos, and it's just him, like, trying his best, I guess, to traverse it all. [00:50:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:50:55] Speaker C: And in the end, it's just that everybody kind of sucks. [00:50:59] Speaker B: Yeah. Very hopeless. [00:51:01] Speaker C: And he's just helpless and scared. And by the end of the movie, I don't know if we're gonna. [00:51:07] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:51:08] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:51:09] Speaker C: That he just becomes this, like, pitiful husk. Husk of a helpless person. [00:51:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:51:16] Speaker A: And, boy, did he deserve it because he is such a piece of shit. [00:51:19] Speaker C: And that feels very much like Bo is afraid to me. Like, the way that I felt watching Beau's afraid is the way that I felt watching this. Like, almost like, fever dreamish. Like, I almost. Like, I didn't know what was going on. I barely knew what they were talking about. [00:51:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:51:33] Speaker C: Like, I was kind of just sitting there watching this guy try and traverse the shit that's happening. So that's why I felt like it was more. Beau was afraid. I felt like Midsommar, the message was much more prominent to me. Like, I could fully understand, like, what they were trying to say and why they were trying to say it throughout Midsommar and that, like, this main character had some prose to her. Like, I could follow her story and be like, okay, I can root for this person. [00:52:03] Speaker A: Right. [00:52:04] Speaker C: You know, and, like, watching. [00:52:06] Speaker A: Even when she makes a decision, she makes. Yeah, you can root for her. [00:52:09] Speaker C: Yeah. Like, I could feel happy for her in the end, but, like, watching Beau was afraid. And then watching Eddington, I was just kind of lost in the shit myself. And, like, there was no way I could feel happiness for either of these characters or, like, good for them at all. I was just kind of like, well, you get what you deserve. [00:52:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:52:29] Speaker C: You know, like, this is just kind of like. And, like. But I wasn't satisfied at the end. Like, I saw this happen. I was just like. I was just like, okay, I guess if that's how you want to do this. [00:52:37] Speaker A: That's. I think what I was looking for was moral complexity, which I think we got in Midsummer was moral complexity, which we didn't get here. And. And just his. Maybe again, as part of the joke. But, I mean, just, like, how awful Joe becomes. [00:52:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:52:53] Speaker A: You know, I mean, I do love the idea of kind of portraying and maybe we said this. I hope I didn't. But like, portraying this idea of his. Of his downfall, like how when he has the most embarrassing thing happen to him and has his power basically cut out from under him, that the first thing he does is try to find the most helpless person and just gun him down. [00:53:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:53:17] Speaker A: And then it's sort of like he's empowered by that. [00:53:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:53:19] Speaker A: And then he. So next step is to kill Pedro Pascal and his teenage son. Yeah. Who's a piece of shit but doesn't deserve to be shot. Yeah. And how does he do it? One mile away in pueblo country and sniping them like he can't even go fake. You know what I mean? [00:53:33] Speaker B: Because he's that pathetic. [00:53:34] Speaker A: That's what I mean. Like, he is so pathetic. And then, and then to frame the one guy who actually probably. No, I'm not going to go that far. He doesn't seem decent. He just seems to be, like, cut off from everything. [00:53:44] Speaker B: He was like dating like a 15 year old. [00:53:46] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:53:47] Speaker A: I mean, he denied it, but of course, in that moment you would deny it. I don't know what to believe. [00:53:50] Speaker B: Well, you see the one text message when she pulls up her phone? You see the text messages between them? And he, like, hit her up after he saw that she, that she kissed the. The song. And then she replies, oh, so I'm not too young for you anymore. [00:54:03] Speaker A: Nice. Okay. [00:54:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:54:04] Speaker A: I had to squint so bad in those things, I could not make up what they were saying. So. Okay, okay. So he was just, just because he was on, on the hot seat, he was trying to deny it. [00:54:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:54:13] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. I mean, so. Yeah, so he's not innocent either, but [00:54:16] Speaker B: he didn't fucking kill them and no. Fucked up. And he's like. [00:54:19] Speaker A: And like when Brian shows him that picture to just, you know, like, who the fuck are you to be like. Well, I sent that picture, so you never know. [00:54:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:54:27] Speaker A: And then again, that, that Joe, I mean, you got to give him credit for thinking on his feet where he's like. He sees that picture and he's like, let me go to my car. [00:54:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:54:34] Speaker A: You know, to plant that thing and the evidence. I kind of would like to see the sequel that follows. Mike, Mike, Mike. Yeah, I like to see what. You know, that, that was intriguing to me when he's doing practice, dude, that [00:54:47] Speaker B: final shot where like he shoots through the hole and then you see him. That was so good. [00:54:51] Speaker A: Okay. I wanted to confirm you actually saw that because I couldn't see that. [00:54:53] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:54:54] Speaker A: He was getting my Screen. [00:54:57] Speaker B: I kind of want to get to the end now or, like, some of the most impactful moments, because I was watching this movie and, like, several times throughout the movie, apart from, like, laughing out loud, because I did laugh out loud, I'll be honest, my hands shot to my head and I went, whoa. [00:55:10] Speaker A: When they. Holy Pascal. [00:55:11] Speaker B: Or when they killed Pedro Pascal, when he got smacked in the face at several points. I mean, my hands just shot to my head and, like, actual surprise, like, when he calls him a rapist. I did not think he was gonna go there. Like, I. Yeah. And, like, I thought he was gonna do something up, but I didn't expect it to be that. [00:55:26] Speaker A: That and such a pathetic moment. Yeah. [00:55:29] Speaker B: God, but it's such a good scene. And then, like. And yet you don't do this as a director. And maybe I'm giving Ariastro too much credit, but you have Pedro Pascal, the most booked fucking man in Hollywood, who everybody loves, everybody thinks he's super sexy. Everybody thinks he's the coolest dude, the sweetest dude. And an hour into your fucking. What is like an hour and 30 minutes into your movie, you shoot him to the fucking chest. You don't do that. You don't do that. And Ari Asher went there. He did that. You don't stab Joaquin Phoenix twice in the skull. [00:56:01] Speaker A: You don't kill. [00:56:02] Speaker B: You don't kill you. You don't kill the kid. You don't kill your main character by having him stabbed in the face by a masked man twice. And then have the final. The final 10 minutes of your movie be him being manipulated. As the car says, you're being manipulated. He's being manipulated. Literally, his strings are being pulled. He is a puppet. He is helpless, and he's being used and put up on a pedestal to say, look, this is the hero of our community. Even though we know he's a piece of piece of shit. This is the hero of our community. This is the guy that's going to take us forward. And we see that the same guy that was pulling the strings of Pedro Pascal is now pulling history. And the craziest. [00:56:35] Speaker A: He's going to show you in the video. [00:56:37] Speaker B: Yeah. And I'm going to say the. I'm going to say the craziest bitch in the movie. [00:56:40] Speaker A: Oh, she's insane. [00:56:41] Speaker B: Is the one. [00:56:42] Speaker A: She's so. [00:56:42] Speaker B: That is now the chairperson of his thing and is sleeping mayor. Yeah. Is sleeping next to him with the nurse. [00:56:48] Speaker A: And it's just like, we all laughed in the theater. [00:56:50] Speaker C: Yeah, I saw that. And I was like, what the hell is going? Like, I was already very confused. And then she, like, gets in bed with him. I was like, is he sleeping with his mother in law? And then like, the nurse gets in the bed. And I was just like, what? Like, creepy ass shit is going on in this movie? [00:57:06] Speaker A: And. And I. I think one of the darkest funny things is that a vegetable was voted mayor. [00:57:12] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:57:13] Speaker B: Because they're saying, look, he's a hero. [00:57:14] Speaker A: He cannot move. He doesn't do anything. [00:57:17] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:57:17] Speaker A: He's basically a living corpse. And let's vote. Vote for this guy to be a mayor. And then the other part where the guy behind me was cracking up. And I had to laugh also because it's so awful when with all the awful things that Joaquin Phoenix has done, you sort of are like, fuck you. You deserve that. When he's in the toilet and he. And he kind of goes with his arm up and the guy just fucking smacks him on the head and he's like, I'm sorry, but like, just the way he, like, I'm like, yeah, you deserve that, you piece of shit. I don't know if I was ready to see Joaquin Phoenix's dick. [00:57:47] Speaker B: Oh, I've seen it before. [00:57:48] Speaker A: Is it. [00:57:48] Speaker B: And Beau's afraid for like 10 minutes. [00:57:51] Speaker C: Oh, my God. [00:57:52] Speaker A: Okay, okay. Yeah, I was a little upset. I was like, oh, damn. All right, good for you. [00:57:58] Speaker C: After getting into, like, these artsy films, I'm just not surprised anymore. [00:58:01] Speaker B: What do you see? A penis. [00:58:03] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:58:03] Speaker A: No, no, it was just. I didn't want to see Joaquin Phoenix's dick. [00:58:05] Speaker C: And. [00:58:06] Speaker A: And I was just like, you know. Yeah. Enough about his dick. I don't want to talk about that. [00:58:11] Speaker C: You think it was a prosthetic? [00:58:12] Speaker B: No, that's an actual. Yeah. [00:58:14] Speaker A: Geez, I hope it was. [00:58:14] Speaker B: I've seen it in several movies now. It's not his first time going full frontal. [00:58:17] Speaker C: Yeah. You're an expert. [00:58:20] Speaker B: I'm an expert in walking. In walking penis. Get it? [00:58:29] Speaker A: That's what I'm gonna call him from. [00:58:32] Speaker B: I don't know, I just thought it was, like, really fun, like really gutsy to go there, to have your main character for the last 10 minutes of your movie just be a vegetable who's being manipulated the same way that. That he has been foreshadowing the whole time. [00:58:45] Speaker A: I mean, I think maybe it's satisfying because for me, you know, for him to. To. [00:58:49] Speaker B: I still felt for him, though, at the end when he was being. I. I mean, I would feel bad for anybody in those circumstances. [00:58:54] Speaker A: Yeah. But it's. It's just. He did too much. He did too much and, and of his own doing. Yeah, that's my whole thing. Like, it's like there are things that you can't control. But this was him. Everything he did, what came from his own insecurities, his own, his own patheticness, which. And the patheticness is just the way how he reacts to things. You know, you can't control certain things. You can't control certain things. Things in life, how people treat you necessarily, but it's how you react to that. And for him to let it sort of turn into this, where he, he now he's that proverbial monkey that attacks the next person after he got hit. Yeah. Like, it's, I think that's why we're 50. 50. Is that, is that like. I don't think it's a bad movie, but I don't think it's a good movie either. I just don't think that he really nailed it. But I'm willing to concede that it really is up for debate. It really is up for debate as far as. Do you like the packaging that it's coming in? And I can really understand that there's gonna be people who just. Who will not have a problem being around these characters that, that I really still feel needed to be fleshed out some more and who do not mind that. That there is no other side to them or, or, you know, that there isn't really necessary complexity that it's just sort of like he's using it to get his anger out. But I'm just like, I don't need two and a half hours of that. I really don't. [01:00:13] Speaker C: I just can't be around pathetic characters [01:00:15] Speaker A: that's just like, I have a same, like, I have a real issue with that. [01:00:18] Speaker C: Shinji from Neon Genesis Evangelion. I have no empathy for that motherfucker. And like, German. [01:00:24] Speaker A: I have some, I have some empathy for him. [01:00:26] Speaker C: Beau from BO is afraid. I can't stand him. And I like this character from Eddington, the Joker. Like, the Joker. Like, I just, I can't. Like, there's something about it that I'm just like, get, get off your ass, please. [01:00:38] Speaker A: Well, or, or don't take other people down with you. [01:00:40] Speaker C: Yeah. There's just something mentally with me that, like, I can't stand it, but it bothers me. [01:00:45] Speaker B: It's just that I don't have, like, necessarily empathy for them. I am like, that's up that that happened. I, I, I don't like them. If I knew this person is a real person. I would hate them. Yeah, but, like, it's real people. [01:00:58] Speaker A: Like, but that's where I don't. [01:01:00] Speaker B: Like, I know. Like, I think that's a real person. Like, I can see that person existing. That insecurity, that anxiety that, like, just, like, bending to anybody's will that, like sitting on a fence and then just picking the side. That's easier for you. Like, those are real people and they. [01:01:17] Speaker A: I don't know if he was doing that. I mean, okay, yeah, that's up for debate. Yeah. Let's not get derailed on that. [01:01:25] Speaker B: And then. Yeah, and then seeing how, like, he gets manipulated the same way that he's been alluding to on his truck, the whole movie spelled wrong. You're being manipulated. [01:01:35] Speaker C: I mean, I will say, after now knowing what the movie was trying to do. Yeah, I like it a little bit more, but. Because again, I. I don't like how the characters were presented and I don't like just, again, like, the packaging, the package that it came in. Like, I. I'm still very 5050 on it, but. [01:01:58] Speaker A: And I just don't accept the worldview that just based that basically everybody's a piece of shit and then that everybody's doing it for. For performative reasons or. Or for their own powers or. You know what I mean? Like, I just would have needed that one person who's decent in there. [01:02:14] Speaker C: It was an extremely pessimistic movie. [01:02:16] Speaker A: Yeah. And I just don't have time for that. [01:02:18] Speaker C: Yeah, I. I just prefer to not watch movies that are entirely pessimistic. [01:02:23] Speaker A: I like some pessimism. Like, I, I like. Midsummer has them. Has that nice balance. Yeah. [01:02:28] Speaker B: Like. [01:02:29] Speaker A: Like, like I can look at that and go. I go, hey, you know, good for you. You're in a cult. But, hey, you know, you have people who care about you, you know, like. Like there is that sort of thing, but here it's just like, oh, well, the corporation won. And because everybody's just a selfish piece of. Yeah, I. I need more than that. [01:02:47] Speaker B: I see the same thing in Midsole. I don't really see the hopefulness in Midsomar. Yeah, she gets her happy ending. She gets her revenge in a way, but now she's stuck in a cult. I mean, a culture cares about her. Yeah, but it's still a cult, right? [01:02:58] Speaker A: No, no. And that's. That's. [01:03:00] Speaker C: That's. [01:03:00] Speaker A: That's the interesting balance that. That's what I was actually hoping for when I was watching it, where I was like, hey, you know, convince me that the cult is, in a weird way, good for her. You know, it's both terrible for her and good for her. I like that. That's the kind of complexity I like. [01:03:14] Speaker C: But, see, that's why I wish we would have seen more of Emma Stone's character, because at the end, we see her, like, pregnant with this guy's kid, and she's in this weird religious cult. And I'm like, that. That's not good. That sucks. But she looks so goddamn happy. [01:03:28] Speaker B: Well, she's brainwashed. [01:03:29] Speaker A: It's not a good thing. I was sort of like, I thought she was just brainwashed. [01:03:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:03:33] Speaker C: Yes. [01:03:33] Speaker A: But then again, so was Emma in Midsummer. [01:03:36] Speaker C: Everybody in a cult is brainwashed. But, like, if that was a weird theme throughout this whole movie, that, like, all of these people are kind of brainwashed and, like, all of these people are, like, doing stuff just for, like, their own thing. But at least if it was for their happiness and, like, at least if they had some weird satisfaction from living their lives this way, like, I could have accepted that, like, the world is shitty, but you could find your own weird, shitty happiness in it. I would have accepted that. I would have been like, okay. [01:04:04] Speaker A: Like, I would have liked that. [01:04:05] Speaker C: Yeah. But it was just like, everybody is shitty and everybody's unhappy, and you're either gonna die or be paralyzed or be [01:04:14] Speaker A: brainwashed or the corporation's gonna take your land and fuck up your town. [01:04:17] Speaker C: Yeah. And then. [01:04:18] Speaker B: But that's what happens. [01:04:19] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:04:20] Speaker C: But I don't want to see. Sit down for, you know, two, three hours and watch that. Or. [01:04:26] Speaker A: Or have that. [01:04:27] Speaker C: Anything from it. [01:04:28] Speaker A: Yeah, just have only that message. Be the message, which I'm like, yeah, I know that. [01:04:31] Speaker B: Well, I don't think that. I think the point is that you're supposed to kind of take away your own message from it. Like. Like, yes, we all got the message. Everything sucks. Everything is shitty. But then we see how some people are reacting to it and saying, like, taking offense to it. And it's like, those are the people who he's talking about, the people who are really, like, taking offense to what he's saying. And, like, oh, this is. You know, he's a piece of. Like, what would. Like. Because he's making fun of those people, like, they don't like being made fun. I'm not saying that you guys are the ones being made fun of, because I think you guys understood them. [01:05:03] Speaker A: I don't think anything personally. [01:05:04] Speaker B: Yeah, the people who don't understand it are the people that he's kind of like, criticizing. Not. Don't understand in. In the sense that, like, you didn't resonate with the movie, but don't understand in the sense that, like, oh, you think he's making fun of you. And if you think he's making fun of you, it's because he is making fun of. He's making fun of you. [01:05:19] Speaker A: And then, like, yeah, I can say honestly, I did not feel like I was being made fun. [01:05:22] Speaker C: Yeah, I didn't get anything from it. [01:05:24] Speaker B: And then, like, now people are talking about this, which I think is another goal of his, is to get people talking. Because even if you thought the movie was shitty, even if you thought the movie was shitty, shitty, strong, or whatever, however you felt about the movie. I feel like now people are talking about this and he's the first person to say, hey, guys, look here. This is what's happening right now. Let's. You know, you guys should talk about it because it really fucking sucks. And everybody's just, you know, nobody's like, saying, oh, okay, I see. [01:05:51] Speaker C: So would you say that it's kind of comparable to what Joker was trying to do? No matter how we feel about, like, the actual movie Joker, like, he was trying to criticize those people that like Joker. [01:06:03] Speaker B: Like, no, I. I think that's being too. I think Joker and shit like American Psycho is a little too simplistic where it's directly pointing fun at this one person and these kinds of people. [01:06:13] Speaker C: I mean, like, like a bigger way of doing that. Like, instead of, like, doing, like, he was making fun of, like, all of these individual people. So, like, maybe we weren't one of those individual people that would have had the finger pointed at us, but, like, the point was, for those people, the finger pointed at them. I'm trying to understand. [01:06:32] Speaker B: No, I. I don't think so. Just because this is so much more intelligent than Joker. I feel like Joker is so, like, that surface level satire. Yes. And so the same thing, like, for all those kinds of, like American Psycho and these things. It's so surface level like that. [01:06:48] Speaker A: It's just like character himself is the same. It's the same downfall. It's the same. [01:06:53] Speaker B: I don't think so, though. [01:06:54] Speaker A: It's. It's a guy, you know, from his. What we say is his own secure. It would be his own. [01:06:59] Speaker B: Well, he. He's in. In Joker. He's completely mentally ill. [01:07:02] Speaker A: He's done better. Yeah, yeah, I think that's. He doesn't have that, you know, Joker. That. That. That was the whole thing that I, I didn't enjoy about it where it's like he's mentally ill. This is not something that he can necessarily change because the world keeps kind of doing these things to him. [01:07:15] Speaker B: And in Joker he's mad at like society in general. In general and in this. It's not that he's mad at society, [01:07:22] Speaker A: he's just better written and deeper into his brain. Yeah, but I mean, and this is what I'm just saying, like I wanted to go this deep into other characters [01:07:31] Speaker C: brain to this character because the whole time it just felt like he was trying to run away from any type of responsibility. Society. [01:07:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:07:39] Speaker C: Like he just, he didn't want the finger pointed at him in any sense of the word. [01:07:43] Speaker A: I mean he inherited his dad's job. [01:07:46] Speaker C: Well, because he was like a police officer and like all of a sudden people were calling police officers pigs. He's like, well I'm not a pig. I've never done anything to black people, so why are you coming after me? But they're going after him, they're going after the system. And he just didn't like he takes [01:08:01] Speaker A: it personally when he shouldn't be. [01:08:03] Speaker C: Yeah. And the whole time was him running away from any responsibility of being part of a system that's doing these things. [01:08:09] Speaker A: Oh yeah. Cuz the system is evil. [01:08:11] Speaker B: Right? [01:08:11] Speaker A: That's his, that's his thinking. Yeah. Like the system is out for me. [01:08:14] Speaker C: That's what made him pathetic to me is that no matter what he refused to take any type of responsibility for any part that he plays in the system of the world. [01:08:24] Speaker A: And even when he kills people, he like he's trying to get anybody, even a 16 year old girl or however 18 year old, whatever he's trying to like he was trying to frame her. Yeah. [01:08:35] Speaker B: When he, when he makes his attempt to take the world by the balls figuratively or like finally take action for something, he does it in the wrong way. [01:08:42] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:08:43] Speaker C: He's still trying to get the blame somewhere else. [01:08:45] Speaker B: Exactly. [01:08:45] Speaker A: Oh yeah. [01:08:45] Speaker B: It's not, it's not like he made himself a martyr and said look at me, I'm going to kill these people. In the end he's still trying to be the hero. And I think that kind of speaks to like his idea of how he's like a cowboy sheriff, like the typical, you know, western hero who goes and, and goes on this mission and kills all these bad people and he does [01:09:04] Speaker A: it like, and he does, you know, at the end like he bust through that door. [01:09:09] Speaker B: He is, he is Clint Eastwood at the end he thinks he's Rambo. [01:09:13] Speaker A: We all laugh when he. When he broke into the gun. [01:09:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:09:16] Speaker A: Like, okay, what's going to happen? [01:09:17] Speaker B: And even when he falls to the ceiling of that place, he lands on the bones of Geronimo, which is a Native. [01:09:23] Speaker A: I didn't know it was that specific, but, like, I. I could tell it was a Native American American museum. So he's like landing on there on. On their. Like sacred. [01:09:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:09:30] Speaker A: Objects. You know, and breaking them. [01:09:32] Speaker B: And when he thinks he's saving everybody. He's not really saving anybody. He's helping these people achieve their goal. [01:09:38] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [01:09:39] Speaker B: Well. [01:09:39] Speaker A: Yes. [01:09:39] Speaker B: So. [01:09:39] Speaker A: Yes. That's ultimately what happened. [01:09:41] Speaker B: I thought that was what was so special about the movie. I don't know. [01:09:44] Speaker A: I. I don't think you're wrong. I. It. And I just. I'm gonna have to stop. I think we're going in circles, unfortunately. Is that. Is that we know what. [01:09:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:09:52] Speaker A: Why that wasn't enough for us in this one. And I sort of feel it's a shame because the things that I like, I really do like. I just. I just wish I could have. It would have been in something that would have come as a whole package. Really worked for me, I think would have been what I would have liked from it. I do want to call out excellent gore at the end. [01:10:09] Speaker B: Hell yeah. [01:10:10] Speaker A: Very satisfying. When they. They blew the guy's leg off and his head exploded and. And then what was the guy. [01:10:16] Speaker B: Dude, when Ari asked. When. When. I mean, when Joaquin Phoenix has stabbed in the head twice. It reminded me so much of an hereditary. When this lady gets her head fucking lo. And hits the ground. The sound effect. I could still hear the sound effect of his head getting stabbed twice. [01:10:29] Speaker A: Yeah. I can't. I can't. But it was a great shocking moment. And then I think we. We all laughed in the theater when fucking Brian shoots him and then he's like, I saved. Stabbed in the head twice. He didn't save shit. Do I. I wonder if I have anything else. I think that's about it. [01:10:47] Speaker C: I mean, I'm. I'm glad now that I could see. See what's special about it, because I had much bigger issues with it before talking about it. [01:10:56] Speaker A: That's why we do this. [01:10:56] Speaker C: Yeah. I couldn't figure out what was so special about the movie or like, what. What was the point of it now being able to see that. I. I do appreciate it a little bit more. It's just. Again, it wasn't my vibe of a movie. And I think that's a personal thing for me. [01:11:16] Speaker A: But I'm still gonna go 50. 50. It's personal. But there's also. He. He didn't nail it. [01:11:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:11:21] Speaker A: I don't think he knew. [01:11:21] Speaker C: Like, I don't think it's something I would watch again. [01:11:23] Speaker A: Right. Yeah. [01:11:25] Speaker C: But I can appreciate maybe in 10 years trying to do. [01:11:27] Speaker A: Yeah, maybe in 10 years when it's reappraised and everybody loves it. [01:11:31] Speaker B: And for as much as. As I love the movie and I still kind of am dying on the same hill that I'm on, I like the way that you guys brought up your critiques for the movie because you made them make sense in a way that, like, as much as I still kind of stand by how I felt about it and how it worked for [01:11:44] Speaker A: me, I wouldn't want you to back down. [01:11:45] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm not going to back down. I still feel the way I feel. But I understand now. Your critiques versus, like, people who have critiqued it just because they say they don't like it. [01:11:53] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Music. [01:11:55] Speaker B: Yeah. And so I think that you guys did open my eyes to where I could see the movie went wrong. So I really appreciate that. If I. If I got a little intense there, I. I'm sorry. [01:12:06] Speaker A: No, you were fine. I thought you're gonna be more intense today. Okay. Yeah. [01:12:08] Speaker B: I tried to. I tried to restrict myself a little bit. [01:12:10] Speaker C: I was waiting for you just, like, slam your hand on the table and shut the. [01:12:13] Speaker A: I was afraid he would stab me in the head twice. Yeah. So glad you didn't. [01:12:16] Speaker B: I might have done three times. Just. [01:12:17] Speaker A: I thought you say once. [01:12:19] Speaker B: Okay. But. Yeah. Yeah. [01:12:23] Speaker A: Again, great conversation. And I think you helped me see it some things more clearly. No pun intended, since I couldn't see much when I saw it. Thank you, Sunset Place. One more time. [01:12:33] Speaker C: We're not getting sponsored by them after. [01:12:35] Speaker A: I would not want to be sponsored because they would fuck it up. Yeah. Okay. Are we closing the book on Eddie? [01:12:42] Speaker B: Hey, I'm done. To close the book on Captain until, like you said, in 10 years, everybody's like, oh, my gosh, I did the masterpiece. Everybody slept on the best movie about 2020. And I'm gonna say, yeah, yeah, I told you so. Go listen to my podcast. Yeah, go listen to watch this. That's the perfect segue into yes, Giving our opinion or our watch list. [01:12:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:13:00] Speaker C: Are we doing the bowl? [01:13:01] Speaker A: I brought the bowl. But we still have Blue Velvet ahead of us, so unless we want to go ahead and sort of. I think. I think. I'm sorry, Bo. You heard your name a lot in this Episode. But we're not gonna. We weren't talking about you. The real bow. We will not be needing your services today. Sorry. Oh, I also need to flick him off. Don't antagonize Bo. [01:13:25] Speaker C: He's not gonna pick your movies because. [01:13:27] Speaker A: Yeah, because this bow is not afraid. [01:13:30] Speaker B: Fantastic. [01:13:31] Speaker A: Okay, go. Was that good? [01:13:33] Speaker B: That was good. [01:13:33] Speaker A: Okay. [01:13:33] Speaker C: That was good. [01:13:34] Speaker A: Okay. I've been not. My track record wasn't too good today. Yeah, thanks for agreeing. I appreciate that. All right, guys, let's go around the table. How many Pauls are we giving it out of four, Stephanie? Oh, it's a tough one. [01:13:50] Speaker C: It really is. I think for me, I'm gonna have to give it like 11 3/4 of a 4 just because I left the theater really disappointed and I walked in very hyped up for it, right? [01:14:07] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, yeah. [01:14:09] Speaker C: Yeah. I'm going to have to stick with that. [01:14:11] Speaker B: Fuck you, Stephanie. Paul. How many? How many? [01:14:15] Speaker A: That's a tough one, though, because, like, there's. There's a part of me, like, I almost want to cheat and sort of be like. I want to give it certain pause for. For what its intentions were and the thought behind it. And then I want to give it a certain amount of pause for. For the actual execution and how I felt watching it. But. Okay, I'm gonna go with my gut. I'm gonna raise it from. From two stars to two and a half. [01:14:37] Speaker B: Okay. [01:14:38] Speaker A: And I think that's being. And I. And I think a half of that half star is due to Alex's convincing discourse today. [01:14:45] Speaker B: Thank you, guys. That's all. That's all I wish to do. Is it my turn now? [01:14:49] Speaker A: It's your turn. [01:14:50] Speaker B: I give Eddington 4 out of 4 Pauls. It is Ari Aster's best movie today. It is a masterpiece. And in 10 years, I will still be saying the same thing. And fuck all of you who don't like it. [01:15:06] Speaker A: I think that was. That wasn't directed towards us, I think. [01:15:08] Speaker B: No, not you guys. Not you guys. Just. Just the people who don't like it. [01:15:11] Speaker A: Just our listeners who disagree. I feel like we should have given it. How many Joaquin Phoenix's dicks out of four are we giving this? [01:15:22] Speaker C: Four out of four Joaquin penises. [01:15:25] Speaker B: Yeah, Joaquin. [01:15:26] Speaker A: Joaquin penis is. [01:15:27] Speaker B: I give it four out of four. [01:15:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:15:30] Speaker B: That's all I have to say. [01:15:31] Speaker A: Excellent. This was great, as usual. I really enjoy talking to you guys and. And breaking this down. And with that, let's just do our final. Are we gonna do it together or are we gonna do it separately? Dude, it's gonna be tough. [01:15:42] Speaker C: I think for this one, we have to do it separately because we all feel so differently about it. [01:15:45] Speaker B: All right, let's do it. [01:15:47] Speaker A: Alex, you go first, because we know what you're gonna do. [01:15:49] Speaker B: Watch this. [01:15:50] Speaker A: Excellent. Stephanie, watch this. [01:15:53] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:15:54] Speaker A: Yeah. Hey, if you want to watch it, watch this. [01:15:56] Speaker C: If you don't want to watch it, don't watch it. [01:15:57] Speaker A: If you don't want to watch it, don't watch it. It's fine. I think that's the favorite thing to say. And with that, we bid you adieu. Until next time. Goodbye. [01:16:07] Speaker B: Bye, guys. By. The chill in the street [01:16:21] Speaker A: Albuquerque.